- Review the different sets of poems assigned for the Group Chat & Group Performance.
- Take two (2) similar poems from different cultures (ex: 1 from China and 1 from Greece).
- Identify the point/s of similarity (ex: explores similar theme or uses similar imagery).
- In what ways are they similar? In what ways are they different? Use textual evidence.
- What generalization (insight!) can you draw from your comparative analysis?
Deadline is Saturday, May 16, 5:00 PM.
In the poems ‘Enuma Elish’ from Sumer and ‘Hymn of Creation’ from India, one may see that both poems pertain to a creation of the world theme. With this information, it can be noticed that both poems start with nothing existing. Eventually, after the 4th line, something is created and the world is being formed by a much higher being. However, it is also noticeable that in the Sumerian poem, there are three gods being described while in the Indian poem there is only ‘the One’. In both poems, the creation of the world is described differently. The first poem, ‘Enuma Elish’ describes the creation as a series of births by the first gods who came from the sweet water mother Apsu and salt water mother Mummu-Tiamat . This can be seen in the line “Nough but Apsu alone…or destiny”. The second poem, ‘Hymn of Creation’ points out a different story of creation. It shows that the world came from a single higher being’s thoughts. This can also be seen in the line “There was that One, and nothing else beyond”.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I can see that the story of creation differs with every religion. It depends on what religion you are to determine how you believe you came to life.
-Corral, Russel
Section P
Sappho’s Seizure and Catullus’s Breakup, although written from different cultures, Greek and Latin respectively, share the same theme of unrequited love. However, the theme is presented in different situations and approaches. In terms of the use of poetry techniques, Seizure evidently uses simile since there is a constant use of like as in “that man is like a god” and “a subtle flame runs like a thief beneath my skin.” Breakup, on the other hand, uses metaphor, as in “the sun shone for you in those days” which pertains to the happy times the persona and his former lover shared, and metonymy in the line “Lock up your heart” which pertains to stopping one’s self from loving that person. Moreover, though both poems use imagery, the former uses the empirical, concrete, and sensational form as depicted in “tremor and fever, and paler than grass in autumn” while the latter uses expressive imagery that tells the reader that the persona is in a determined state of mind to forget and move on as illustrated in “So long, girl! Catallus won’t miss you” and “Enough, Catallus. It’s over.” The lines, “the heart is shaken, for let me only glance at you,” “my eyes are blank, my ears a buried thunder,” and “I feel my death,” suggest that Seizure’s persona is in despair, having to bear not having the one he loves to love him back, and evoke a helpless and hopeless tone. On the other hand, the optimistic, encouraging, and hopeful tone of the poem Breakup is seen in the persona’s determined and consoling thoughts in the poem such as “what glowing times you had, Now she would have none of it” and “don’t chase after her, cut clean, take it, show some spunk.” As an observation, one can say that a certain idea as unrequited love may be presented in various ways in a poem. Here, we are able to see that in the two poems, there is distinction on how the poets approached such a situation as in the imagery and techniques used. These two poetry strategies are major factors in helping a reader, not only to identify the tone, state of mind and dramatic situation, but also to fully understand the message of the poem. It is interesting to note that the poems come from different cultures but have successfully been able to relate the meaning of one topic.
ReplyDelete- Ma. Angelica Anne M. Tangco Lit 14 - P
The poems “On His Shield” by Archilochus and “Breakup” by Caius Valerius Catullus both present a sense of bravado. On “On His Shield,” it has been discussed during our class that it is better for the Greeks to die during the war than to return home without bringing your shield with you. Thus, the saying “with the shield or on it.” But on the poem, the persona lost his shield. And he includes that he’ll just “let it go,” and “soon buy another just as good,” without showing any fear of rejection or ridicule he’ll face when he goes back home. On the other poem, Catullus’ “Breakup,” we can really see that the persona, Catullus, is very much affected by his breakup with his girlfriend. But as the persona says to himself that he should be moving on and he “can take it.” Saying the last sentence: “You can take it,” revealed that there is at least an attempt of a cover up of real emotion. I think the main difference of the poems is the way they used the concept of bravado. On the first poem, you cannot know the real emotion of the persona if you do not know how important their shields are to the Greeks. On the other hand, the second poem almost just gave away what Catullus is really feeling. These poems both talk about a sense of bravado, but using them in different subject matters. These just shows that some feelings are not just limited to one topic or subject, but rather a lot more that what we know.
ReplyDelete-Jamie Mae Sim Lit14 P
Ono No Yoshiki’s Tanka and “Seizure” are somehow similar because of their theme that talks about the persona not being noticed by his/her loved one. The first two stanzas of “Seizure” show how the persona can only look at her love and watch him as he accompanies someone else. Her love is not felt and this makes her invisible to him. In the third and fourth stanza, we can see that the persona is feeling uncomfortable and stunned. The state of mind of the persona in Ono No Yoshiki’s tanka is somehow different because the tone of the poem gives off a calmer or more neutral feeling. The persona just speaks out how he sees his love is being treated and the poem doesn’t give a clue for any specific feeling. The poem though also speaks about how the persona’s love is unnoticed. The last line of the poem says it all. The two poems also make an imagery of nature. For “Seizure”, we can see this in the line “and paler than grass in autumn”, while in the tanka, Yoshiki uses the grass as a simile for his love. It is evident that in the early days that nature has been really used in poetry by different cultures. We can say that nature plays an important role in the development of early poetry and even until now.
ReplyDelete-Schevenard Cu Section P
On a first glance, we can immediately say that Caius Catallus’ “Odi et Amo” and Prince Otsu’s tanka both reveal the same theme which is love. However, taking a deeper look at the two poems would not only give us their parallelism but also provide some sort of disparity between them. The Latin poem “Odi et Amo” talks about the irony of love as shown in the line of the persona which was particularly Catallus himself saying “I hate her, yet love her too”, pertaining to his lover/mistress Lesbia upon finally ending up their relationship. On the other hand, the Japanese tanka shows an episode where Prince Otsu is waiting for his lover (who unfortunately wasn’t able to come) to meet her along the hill. The prince stays there for a very long time up until the point he became wet due to the abundance of dew that morning (“waiting for you I stood dampened by the dew on the hill”). The two poems are somehow connected with each other in the sense that the persona of Prince Otsu somehow feels the same way as the persona of Catallus. They deeply love their companions but are conquered by the intense, mixed emotions of despair, confusion and hatred. On Catallus’ case, he was abandoned by his lover after finding another man which offered him extreme isolation. However, Prince Otsu was left complaining and pondering about whether Lady Ishikawa still cares for him or not which was really difficult for someone deeply in love to bear. Although the poems “Odi et Amo” and the tanka by Prince Otsu have similarity in theme which was love in general, the two poems revealed two different aspects of it which was unrequited and forbidden love (can be inferred that Lady Ishikawa was not allowed to continue her relationship with the prince), respectively. Lastly, I found it interesting how these two poems although came from different cultures coincide with one another and have exposed something about our notions of love. And even if they still have major differences in terms of structure and other forms, it was for me impressive how they exposed the idea of “melancholia in love”.
ReplyDelete-Romy Robielos II, Lit-14 P
On a first glance, we can immediately say that Caius Catullus’ “Odi et Amo” and Prince Otsu’s tanka both reveal the same theme which is love. However, taking a deeper look at the two poems would not only give us their parallelism but also provide some sort of disparity between them. The Latin poem “Odi et Amo” talks about the irony of love as shown in the line of the persona which was particularly Catullus himself saying “I hate her, yet love her too”, pertaining to his lover/mistress Lesbia upon finally ending up their relationship. On the other hand, the Japanese tanka shows an episode where Prince Otsu is waiting for his lover (who unfortunately wasn’t able to come) to meet her along the hill. The prince stays there for a very long time up until the point he became wet due to the abundance of dew that morning (“waiting for you I stood dampened by the dew on the hill”). The two poems are somehow connected with each other in the sense that the persona of Prince Otsu somehow feels the same way as the persona of Catallus. They deeply love their companions but are conquered by the intense, mixed emotions of despair, confusion and hatred. On Catallus’ case, he was abandoned by his lover after finding another man which offered him extreme isolation. However, Prince Otsu was left complaining and pondering about whether Lady Ishikawa still cares for him or not which was really difficult for someone deeply in love to bear. Although the poems “Odi et Amo” and the tanka by Prince Otsu have similarity in theme which was love in general, the two poems revealed two different aspects of it which was unrequited and forbidden love (can be inferred that Lady Ishikawa was not allowed to continue her relationship with the prince), respectively. Lastly, I found it interesting how these two poems although came from different cultures coincide with one another and have exposed something about our notions of love. And even if they still have major differences in terms of structure and other forms, it was for me impressive how they exposed the idea of “melancholia in love”.
ReplyDelete-Romy Robielos II, Lit-14 P
The River- Merchant’s Wife: A Letter by Li Po and the Japanese tankas by Prince Otsu and Lady Ishikawa present the same dramatic situation which is about two lovers that were separated. In The River- Merchant’s Wife, the man left because he had to fulfill the task of being a river merchant. In this poem, the girl is the one who experiences the loneliness and longing. While in the Japanese tankas, the man is the one who was waiting for the girl. In both poems, we can see the emotion of weariness while waiting for their loved ones. In the river- merchant’s wife, it was shown through the lines: “the paired butterflies are already yellow with August, over the grass in the West garden, they hurt me, I grow older. While on the tankas, the word “dampened” is a hint for weariness. Dampen, literally, means to deaden or diminish. So, this means that the man has already waited for the girl for a long time. The difference is that in the tanka, there was an assurance that the girl also loves that boy. This was seen through her reply: “ o that I could be the dew dropping on that broad- flanked hill”. Unlike in the River- Merchant’s, we don’t know if the man still loves the girl. Another difference is the use of emotion. The tankas have only one emotion which is loneliness while the River- Merchant’s presented several emotions from the start to end because there was a story. The tankas are straight to the point. In this comparison, I learned that Asian poetry really uses the elements of the environment as images in their poems. They are very appreciative of the environment and maybe they believe that the environment is the perfect representation for feelings of human beings.
ReplyDeleteSarah Candido, Lit14 P
The poem “Paralysis” by the Greek poet Sappho and the poem “Breakup” by the Roman poet Caius Valerius Catullus are have more similarities than differences when looked at closely. The poem “Breakup” is especially similar to the translation of Thomas Moore entitled “Mother, I Cannot Find My Wheel”. Both personas from the two poems are suffering the hardships of unrequited love and the actions and feelings of the personas revolve around this theme. The persona in the Greek poem is a spinster who cannot do her everyday hobbies and duties since she is constantly thinking of the man that he loves but that man left her for another woman. This is evident in the lines “Mother, I cannot mind my wheel”, “All other men use deceit”, ” He always said my eyes were blue”, “And often my lips were sweet”. On the other hand, the persona in the Roman poem is Catullus who was dumped by his lover for another woman which is seen in the lines, “Enough, Catullus. It’s over.”, “Lock up your heart. You can take it.” and “Not again Lesbia. No more...” It is interesting to note that the original Greek poem “Paralysis” involves a spinster who can’t be with the one she desires who is also a woman. In both poems, there is the recurring theme of Lesbianism. The Greek and Roman culture are very similar to each other which is why the topic of unrequited love and lesbianism could be possible and similar in both cultures even before common era. Lastly, both poems use imagery as a major device. The images of wheel, fingers aching and dry lips are used in the Greek poem while the image used in the Roman poem is a locked up heart. Despite the similarities, there are differences in the devices used. The Greek poem used rhyme: wheel-feel, dry-I, true-blue, and deceit-sweet as the dominant device used. On the other hand, the Roman poem used more metonymy such as the sun and glowing times. The tone of both poems are definitely different because the Greek poem sounds depressing and hopeless while the Roman poem sounds optimistic about forgetting about the past and moving on.
ReplyDeleteDesiree M. Fadri
Lit14-P
15 sentences
Sappho’s “Seizure” and Sulpicia’s “To Cerinthus” are similar in terms of their theme, which is about unrequited love. In “Seizure”, we implied that this is a lesbian poem because we can see a love triangle among the persona, the man, and the woman who the persona is in love with (“...as he sits close to you and listens to your sweet voice and ripple”). It is unrequited love since especially during Sappho’s time, it is forbidden and unacceptable to have same-sex relationships. On the other hand, based on our discussion, the poem “To Cerinthus” is about a woman from a certain social class falling in love with a man not from her class. During the author’s time, a person must only marry someone of the same social class. However, at the same time, these two poems also have their differences especially in the personas’ behavior. In “Seizure”, the persona is very reserved about her feelings towards to the other woman, as she said, “Beneath my breast/ the heart is shaken, for let me only glance at you, my voice fails/ my tongue is stricken, a subtle flame runs like a thief beneath my skin;…” In “To Cerinthus”, the persona is very open about her forbidden relationship and doesn’t care what other people say, as she said, “I’d be more embarrassed if people say I hid it than if they’d say I had told my friends.” She also said, “For a little infamy is spice to pleasure, and discretion is nothing but a tedious pose.” After doing this comparative analysis, I realized that culture affects the writings of each type of poetry. However, even though there are differences, these writings were able explore in the same themes or issues being experienced by human beings.
ReplyDelete- Joan Carla Sy, Lit 14-P
The poems of Horace, “Rectius Vives”, and Sa’di, “Gulistan (The Rose Garden)”, share some similarities. The first similarity is their theme, how to live wisely or live with wisdom. The Latin poem has an “advising” approach on how to live wisely, talking about how to stay in the middle of things in order to gain wisdom in any situation (“do not always thrust into deep water, nor… push too close to the jagged coast”). The Persian poem questions what wisdom really is and how we encounter it in our life, from seeing what’s right in front of us to answering the unknown (the evidence is the whole poem itself). Imagery was also apparent in the two poems. Rectius Vives has the central image of sailing on water, while Gulistan has images of sky and stars to a wife being kissed by someone. I see Rectius Vives’s persona as someone who has found wisdom through time, because by reading the poem, you can see how clearly he knows what he is saying. Gulistan’s persona has also found wisdom because he questions “his stupidity” of thinking of the most complex things instead of looking first at the simplest (the two lines both being questions). Metaphors are used in both poems and words used are all linked to nature. The body of water where Licinius sails is a metaphor for whatever situation he’ll be in. “Heaven’s all hidden life” indicates the things yet unknown to man.
ReplyDeleteBy combining the lessons of these two poems, it makes great sense of what wisdom is. You have to look clearly first of the apparent then you’ll know where you have to stand to make the right decisions in life. With the metaphors used, it’s like saying wisdom is just around us like how nature surrounds us.
-Dianne Laurice Tan Lit14 P
I found that the poems Odi et Amo by Catullus (Latin) and Seizure by Sappho (Greek), although both poems have different approaches, still talk about how love hurts and how one can be really affected by it.
ReplyDeleteSeizure, as we discussed in class, talks about someone's love to a woman who is in love with another man and this situation aroused the persona's jealousy. The persona described how her body was affected like it was going to have a seizure(e.g. the heart is shaken, a subtle flame runs like a thief beneath my skin) , and this is just by seeing her love with another man. Her jealousy made her feel like she is boiling up with it because of jealousy. The last line "I am changed, I feel my death." is the persona's proclamation that this feeling of jealousy is like death to her and how it hurts and confuses her especially her body' reactions.
Odi et Amo, uses a different kind of approach and is shorter and more brief while the previous poem discussed elaborated more on describing the feeling of love when jealousy takes over. It started with the line, "I hate her, yet love her too." that contradict each other and somewhat doesn't really make any sense. How can you hate someone but love them too at the same time? Well, one possible way is that one can act that he hates a person but actually loves him/her. Another possible way for this to happen is when one loves a person too much and finds the person irritating because he/she makes one's heart rate to race and gives one a seizure (when the person is seen with someone else), like that of the poem Seizure, and thus come to hate the person. Any person can find this feeling very confusing and that it hurts to feel this way.
What I can say about the two poems is that even if both came from different cultures, love is still the same for each and every person. People from different cultures may also perceive a concept or experience similarly. This does not only include the concept of love, but also about the different concepts in life that we people experience. Each and every one of us will have to go through the same experiences in life and that's what makes us similar no matter how different we are in age, race, culture, or language. These poems were written very long ago and yet we still find these poems very close to how we feel and experience in real life.
Tan, Ariadne Sharla
Lit14 - P
I think the poems “On His Shield” and “We fought at the South of the Ramparts.. ” are very similar. Although both poems came from different culture, they had the same idea that not losing their own life is more significant than winning a war and bringing honour to their country. In the Chinese poem, he mentioned that war is never ending, many people die during wars and “That no one avails except the fool” . Even though in the process of war, china gained lands and were able to protect their land yet he describe that people who wanted war are fools because I think for him, life is more meaningful than the positive effects of war. In the Greek times, the people held much value in their shield mainly because it symbolizes victory if they return with it from a battle. Based on the lines “it was first-rated large, too, but I saved my skin. Let it go, I’ll soon buy another just as good.” from the poem “On His Shield”, the persona looked at the shield nothing more important than his life. He thought of the shield just for protection and based on the first two lines of the poem, he is willing to run away and drop his shield so that his life would be saved rather than dying with honour. Other than the length of the poems, those two shared some difference. The major difference is the tone. Although the idea of the poem is similar, the delivery of that idea is different. The Greek poem compared the value of life and the value of shield which symbolizes victory in wars, but during the comparison, he sounded pretending to be brave. On the other hand, the Chinese poem ends a question that showed how the persona ridicules the people who engage with war. These two poems showed me that even in the earlier times, people viewed war as a horrible action because it takes something that could not be bought back unlike the shield and how blood sheds never end.
ReplyDeleteKristofer Benedict Chua Lit14-P
The poems ‘We Fought South of Rampart’ and ‘For the Spartan Dead at Thermopylae’ show similarities although they are from different spatially (time and space). ‘We Fought South of Rampart’ deals with the after-effects of war like death and defeat and talks about it in a more negative manner. On the other hand, ‘For the Spartan Dead at Thermopylae’ talks about an unsuccessful war which is seen in a positive way. ‘We Fought South of Rampart’ sees death and the tragedies induced by war as a consequence, while, ‘For the Spartan Dead at Thermopylae’ sees the death of the people as reverence to their country. Both poems use the images of dead people in a war setting and create a negative mood towards the readers. The Chinese poem uses the elements of poetry more than the Greek poem; it uses various techniques such as allusions about places in China (i.e. lighting of beacons in the Great Wall), onomatopoeia such as the neigh of the horses, metaphors such as the Parthian waves which relates the Persians to the waves made by the ocean, and synecdoche such as ‘the three armies’ which refers to a lot more than three armies. Meanwhile, the Greek poem is very literal in nature and does not use much of the techniques used by the Chinese poem. There are words in the poem which may signify the time when it was written, such as Thermopylae in ‘For the Spartan Dead at Thermopylae’ which is historical and reflects the period where it was written, and the activities done in the Chinese poem which will show the not-so-modern technology in the period wherein the poem was written. Both poems were written in different times by different people but there are similarities which cannot be denied. The themes of the poems are somewhat related and show how human nature, although affected by the environment, is universal.
ReplyDeleteHans Yu. Lit14-P
I chose to compare the Latin poem “Breakup” and the Greek poem “Paralysis”. These two poems shows the reality of life when it comes to love. In general the theme is about love but the two differ on how love is portrayed. Breakup mainly shows the repercussions than one gets when he/she falls in love and turns out the other direction. It may hurt a lot but in reality, its time to move on from the things that are out of your control. Paralysis, on the other hand, focuses more on love that he/she wishes to have with the Cyprian. It is the love that the person may not have for she is too old to be in love for her age. These two poems are also quite straightforward. There are not much imagery instead, it is more of just showing the actual scene of what they are saying. In breakup, the guy is hearing voices in his head trying to help him forget his former love. While in paralysis, the woman simply says that she cannot do what an old woman of her status can do for she would rather marry. These poems shy away from what the usual poems are in the sense that they always have to have a deeper meaning. These two poems just say what they are trying to say in a beautiful yet straightforward manner.
ReplyDeleteReesh Miranda
Lit 14-P
Odi et Amo by Catullus (Latin) and Seizure by Sappho (Greek have both similarities and differences. They both expound on the idea on unrequited love as well as the common notion "love hurts." The persona of both poems experience some kind of pain every time they encounter the person they have feelings for. In Seizure, the persona expresses that the pain that she feels can be compared to a person undergoing an actual seizure, we can see this in the poem by, "heart is shaken...sweat breaks out over me, tremor..." It is as if the whole body of the person is being possessed every time the persona sees the woman she loves with another man. The persona of Odi et Amo on the other hand, mainly feels confusion and desperation. He is confused on what to feel for the woman since there are some factors that contribute to his liking for her as well as his hatred towards her. Maybe the woman does not like her back, the common reason why people say love hurts.
ReplyDeleteTheir differences, however, vary. The persona of Seizure is most likely a woman while in Odi et Amo, the persona might be a man. In Seizure, the persona shows much reaction and expresses them openly while the persona in Odi et Amo simply thinks to himself, not expounding upon his deeper feelings. Related to this, the persona in Seizure seems to be more affected physically in her endeavor, we can see her pain through her words like how her jealousy feels like death, while in Odi et Amo, the man ponders about his love a little bit more silently than Seizure, it may even interpreted in a jested manner, if read in a different way.
No matter their difference, we see that both man and woman suffer a great deal on love. But for me, without this kinds of experiences, it wont be worth it. Seeing how far one has traveled to get this far will mean a lot that person and at the same time, he/she will learn more.
Ivan Zamora. LIT14-P
The poems “On His Shield” by Archilochus and “The Ballad of the Army Waggons” by Tu Fu both have the same theme which is war but both of the poems deal with a specific topic about war which is tradition. In both poems, it can be known that men are being offered as sacrifice to their state for its safety; this is done by making these men as part of the army. The two poems are different with the tone because the first poem conveys the feeling of hope and another chance to replace his shield while the second tells us hopelessness and sorrow for the lost. The first poem can be considered harsh if we talk a look at its traditional background because parents would rather want their child dead other than returning home without his shield while the second talks about regret and hurt on the parents ‘side that they would even rather have a daughter than a son because their son will only die in war. Both of the poems tackle the devastation the war causes but it was told in detailed in the second poem since the first one is a short poem. The second poem also tackles death and the unhumane treatment to the dead soldiers as if they were just toy soldiers while in the first it doesn’t mention anything about death but instead it projects an arrogant tone which can be only bravado since it doesn’t talk about dying for the war but saving the face of the persona. The second poem shifts its person’s point of view as denoted by the quotation marks and change in personal pronouns while in the first it was in the first person point of view all throughout. Both poems used figure of speeches in their mission of conveying their message to their readers. The first poem has a comic effect for the soldier can be regarded as a coward which is pretty ironic during those times because soldiers are vey brave back then while the second one gives a serious effect because of its subject of war, greed and sacrifice. Finally, the two poems tell us war doesn’t do anything good and that back then people didn’t have the greatest gift we have today; free will.
ReplyDeleteJohn Albert M. Bonifacio - Section P
The Chinese poetry entitled The River-Merchant's Wife: A letter and the Japanese poetry entitled Prince Otsu and Lady Ishikawa both have the similar themes. Both have the theme that one guy and one girl who loved each other were separated. Each of them also gives us the image of two lovers being separated and waiting for the other's return. "At sixteen you departed," as we can see in the fourth stanza of A River-Merchant's Wife: A letter, shows here that the guy left the girl, and he "went into as far as Ku-to-en, by the river of swirling eddies," which lets us understand that the guy left for some business matters that might be near the river or in the river. On the other hand, "waiting for you I stood dampened" and "waiting for me you stood dampened," lines in Prince Otsu and Lady Ishikawa's poem respectively lets us clearly understand that Prince Otsu, the guy, is waiting for the girl but the reason of separation was not clear. Here it also shows that in the Chinese poem, the girl was waiting for the guy's return. However, in the Japanese poem, it was the guy who was waiting for the girl.In a River-Merchant's Wife: A Letter, the wife is waiting fot the man outside her house for so long that "by the gate now, the moss is grown, th different mosses, too deep to clear them away." While, in Prince Otsu and Lady Ishikawa's poem, the prince is waiting for Lady Ishikawa "by the dew on the hill, on that broadened-flanked hill" already "dampened by the dew on the hill." In both the Chimese poem, The River-Merchant's Wife: a letter and the Japanese poem, Prince Otsu and Lady Ishikawa, one insight that I have learned here is that when there is love has grown between two lovers,it would be very hard for both of them to be separated. When you really love the other person, you will definitely wait for him/her.
ReplyDelete-CAMILLE T. KOA
SECTION P
The poems "The Ballad of the Army Waggons" by Tu Fu and "For the Spartan Dead at Thermopylae" by Simonides discuss each persona's view of war. The Greek and Chinese poems agree that war connotes death and sacrifice.
ReplyDeleteBut the differences outnumber the similarities. Structurally, Simonides' poem has little imagery, showing only Spartans dead on the ground, telling a story only after a war. On the other hand, Tu Fu's poem tells a more detailed description, such as the 'bleached bones' at the Black Lake and what happens when the soldiers are drafted into the army. The Chinese poem would use more figures of speech, such as hyperbole ("the blood that flows there would make a sea!"). It also uses metaphor of brambles to pain and suffering in the line "... the House of Han In thousands of villages grow only brambles?".
Thematically, the view of war in these two poems are different. The view of war in Simonides' poem is that war is honorable and it is a male Spartan's duty to go to war, based on the line "... obedient to their orders...". It may also be because of the fact that Spartan boys start learning about war at the age of seven. The Chinese view of war is different. It suggests that war is driven by greed of the upper class or the government, which is apparently true, implied in the line "And still our Emperor Wu-ti lusts for more land". The Chinese me seem to be driven by levies or taxes but are always in fear in times of war ("... has bow and quiver at his waist") and that the parents and wives are reluctant to let them go unlike in Spartan tradition where it is accepted that the life of a man is always for Sparta.
Either way, I understand that war may bring honor and pride to a country, but it doesn't come without a price.
Chester Lorenz Chacon - P
In the poems “For the Spartan Dead at Thermopylae” from Greek poetry and “We Fought South of the Ramparts...” from Chinese poetry both have a similar topic, war. Both Poems have a similar aspect that war is always linked to death which can be seen in the Greek poem through the line “That here, obedient to their instructions, we lie.” And in the Chinese poem it can be seen in the line “In the field, sword by sword, the soldiers fall,” also. Now the difference between the two poems is on how they view death is, in the Greek poem it is seen as to be something that is filled with honor and glory to die in a war as can be seen also in the same line “obedient to their instructions.” The image that can be seen in the Greek poem is that a Spartan soldier accepting his lost with his pride intact talking to the enemy with a fierce attitude. On the other hand in the Chinese poem it is seen as a dreadful thing filled with hardships and misery that can be summarized in the line “Surely you know that war is a cursed tool.” But it is not only at that point where in it can be seen, as said it was only a summary. That the poem is mostly about describing and imaging the different events that happen in wars, events such as soldiers dead and crows feeding on their bodies, that can be seen similarly in each stanzas. By comparing both these poems side by side I can say that during those times where in those poems were written these two cultures had a whole different perspective as to what war was like. On the Greek side Spartans honored their deaths in war and found it to be a reasonable death. On the Chinese side it was mostly seen as a realistic sense that war was filled with death and that misery and pain roamed freely during times of wars. The Greeks, more on Spartans were filled with pride to the end as to the Chinese who were practical in viewing wars.
ReplyDelete-Daryl Royce M. Tanrena Lit14 P
The poem "Breakup" by Caius Valerius Catullus and "The River-Merchant's Wife:A Letter" by Li Po shwowed various similarities despite their differences in time and cultural backgrounds.
ReplyDeleteThe poem Breakup was about Catallus comforting himself from a breakup with Lesbia. At the begining of the poem, he remembered those wonderful times when they were still together and how it meant to him. Symbolism was used to show how he enjoyed the time being with lesbia like "the sun shone for you in those days...". But in the latter he tells himself that it is Lesbia's loss and not his. It even used
"spunk" as a metaphor for being resilient.
On the otherhand, Li Po's poem was about a wife being left by his husband who is a river-merchant. Instead of comforting herself, the persona talks about the bad things she has endured without her husband. She used symbolism like "monkeys make sorrowful noise.." and "leaves fall early" to show how she was so miserable, and "the moss is grown" to show how time has passed by.
The two different poems share the theme of being left by someone he/she loves. In Breakup, the persona was being left for another girl while the River-merchant's Wife was being left because of his husband's duties. Both of the persona are in pain because of their loss. The difference is that Catallus is trying to move on while the river-merchat's wife is still waiting.
Lu Emil A. Tabel
Lit14-P
For this analysis, I have chosen to compare Odi et Amo (Latin) by Caius Catullus and a poem from the Divan-I Shams-I Tabriz (Persian) by Jalal al-Din Rumi. Odi et Amo talks about the hate-love feeling towards the persona’s love interest. The poem from the Divan-I Shams-I Tabriz, on the other hand, talks about the hesitation to live in the material world because of the difficult circumstances but eventually undertakes the adventure. Looking into the poems, difficult and often conflicting situations seem to be evident in both situations.In Odi et Amo, there is irony particularly verbal irony which states, “I hate her, yet I love her too.” Hate and love are antonyms of each other. Usually using both to explain emotions would just create ambiguity.In the poem, however, it seems to explain the difficulty and complexity of being in love. In the Persian poem, there is dramatic irony which states, “They dragged me there to shape me like a ball.” Initially, I would think of associating the shaping of the ball to the creation of life like a fetus maybe. However, in the soul’s perspective, it is something undesirable since the life in heaven is already perfect. In this poem, the messages of the soul, even though it did not desire to live on the material world, conveyed a message of how beautiful the life on heaven is. From this analysis, I have come to realize that even though there are those tough times with life maybe it be in relationships or just in the way of living, there is always something positive or the good that we can derive from it.
ReplyDelete-Izzabella Perez, Sec P
The poem from India, The Hymn of Creation and the Persian poem from the Masvi-yi-ma'navi form same imagery on my mind. This is the image of mankind having no light to see the unknown truth. In the elephant poem, the idea that these tourists have no candles and their use of similes, comparing the sacred elephant to objects show their lack of unearthly knowledge. People resort to things and non-beings to explain the unknown (God and the truth about our origin). Same in The Hymn of Creation, the persona is making an image in the readers' minds that, in search for the One / the unknown, we "found the bond of being in non-being." The difference between them is they show different angles from the same image they portray. In The Hymn of Creation, the persona questions the concept of religion about truth. He said "only the One knows or perhaps not." Truth is a mystery he knows he can't decipher no matter what. In the elephant poem, the use of simile is the clue that some humans search for explanations in how nature works. That this looks like this so maybe this is it. They're not sure that's why they lack credibility.
ReplyDeleteThe insight I've earned is simple - that poetry is mankind's way to express either the things they've explored or not yet explored. Poets resort to comparison (like similes and metaphors) when it comes to things that they can't explain. In man's quest for truth, he becomes degraded because he can't explain a thing. He writes not about the truth but his feelings for truth - worked as images.
-Camille Jacinto, sec P
Both Ono No Yoshiki(Japanese) and Masvi-yi ma'navi(Persian) has the image that something is hidden. The grass is hidden in the Japanese poem while the elephant is hidden in the Persian poem.
ReplyDeleteIn Masvi-yi ma'navi, each person felt that what they were touching was different because of the difference in perspectives. One said "This creature is like a fan", another said "This creature is like a water-pipe". In Ono No Yoshiki, he compares his love to a grass, hidden beneath the large mountains. The difference here is that people had views in the elephant whereas no one knew about the grass.
Both of these poems are saying that the truth exists, even if know one has seen or felt it. There is such thing as "the truth" amongst many theories and opinions. Whether you want to seek for the truth or not, it depends on you.
John Wong Lit14P
Seizure and The River-Merchant’s Wife: A Letter (Tr. Cooper) are poems that employ unrequited love as their theme but they have a difference on how it was applied on their dramatic situation. In The River-Merchant’s Wife, the persona was forced to marry a merchant she didn’t love at first but as time passed by, she loved him so much but her husband left and never came back again. On other hand, the persona in Seizure loves someone but doesn't love her back. Another difference of these poems is their tones. The tone used in Seizure is jealousy. She is jealous to the person who is beside the “man like a god.” On the contrary, the tone of The River-Merchant’s Wife changes from start to end. From a happy tone, the tone changes to a bashful one and ends with a lonely tone. In the use of poetic techniques, Cooper’s Translation used allusions like “You’d ever stand by pillar faithful” and “I’d never climb the Watcher’s Mountain!” The pillar here refers to the pillar in a river where a Chinese died as he waited for his loved one. In contrast, Seizure mostly used simile like “that man is like a god” and metaphor like “my ears a buried thunder.” The thunder referred here is the heart beat that the persona can only hear. To put it briefly, human experiences are greatly affected by cultures. The persona in River-Merchant’s Wife experienced forced marriage as it is a tradition in the country China while the persona in Seizure sees the man like a god.
ReplyDelete-Ryan Sibbaluca (Section P)
Although the poems of Hafiz (of Persia) and Prince Otsu (of Japan) were written by two distinct cultures from different periods, they both explore the ever-famous theme of love. Both poems present to us an image of man truly loving a woman, even to the point of sacrificing one's health and even his very own self. Both personae express desire in being with their loved ones, as shown in these lines: "When will you draw near and make reply?" and "Waiting for you, I stood dampened". It can be inferred, though, that this desire was not reciprocated in both poems.
ReplyDeleteEven if they share a common a theme, the setting of poems differ. In Prince Otsu's tanka, we are given this picture of a man dampened on a hill as he waits for his loved one. In Hafiz's, on the other hand, not much of the setting was mentioned. This is quite ironic since Hafiz's is much longer as compared to the tanka. This observation can be attributed to the differences in culture; Japanese poets often being content to hint and suggest (as clearly seen in the length of the Prince Otsu's poem), as compared to Persian poets who are usually more expressive (as shown in the line "...my heart's fire [is] still smoldering for you.")
These two poems serve as evidence that even if people do not belong to the same race and even the same age, there is still that one thing which gathers them all together: love. These poems were written almost a thousand years apart, yet their common theme simply indicates that there are things which still have not changed over time. :)
Melissa Manay, Lit 14 P
The poem “To Cerinthius” by Sulpicia can be compared to the tanka by Ono No Yoshiki. A very evident similarity in the two poems is the general topic that they deal with, which is love and hiding it or showing it. They are also similar since in both cases, we see that there is a hindrance or something that comes in between the two. In the case of “To Cerinthius”, we know that there is an issue such as the social status or the age. In the tanka, on the other hand, all we can conclude to is that, similar to Sulpicia’s poem, there is something that is keeping the persona from expressing the love. Aside from their similarities, the poems also show contrasting details. Though they both talk about forbidden love, Sulpicia’s persona deals with it and told everyone about that love she had, since for her, she’d “be more embarrassed if people said I hid it.”In the tanka’s persona on the other hand, the love was compared to “the grasses hidden in the deep mountain” where “there is none that knows.”We see there that these two personas dealt with their love and the issues differently. These two poets were from different cultures, Latin and Japanese, yet the situation that they wrote about were quite similar.This shows us how even long ago, we had these issue that existed in different places, in different times.
ReplyDeleteGrace Gana
Lit14 - P
"Seizure" and "Breakup" both deal with love problems. However, the two poems have different approach when it comes to the delivery by the persona. In the Greek lyric "Seizure," i think the persona is in the surrendering part while the Latin poem "Breakup" is more about someone's moving on from a heartbreak. I believe that in "Seizure," the character of the persona is weak and he is not confident about himself. Instead of the cliche where someone thinks he's better than his rival, the persona in "Seizure" hails his rival by referring to his as god-like. Also, even if it is only an exaggeration, he feels like his death is coming even if it's only a heartache and not something that hurt him physically. On the other hand, the persona in "Breakup" is emotionally strong. He deceives himself that it's the girl's loss to break up with him. In the end, he decided to let it pass and just move on. "Seizure" and "Breakup" also differ from each other in the way that "Seizure" makes a reader feel like the persona is talking to him or he's also in the scene while "Breakup" puts the reader in the position of the presona as if he's talking to himself.
ReplyDeleteSydney Dondon
Lit-P
You may think that the Greek poem “For the Spartan Dead at Thermopylae” and the Latin poem “Rectius Vives” may not be alike but I can see and share some similarities that these poems share. The first similarity these poems share is what central meaning they convey: logic. It may be inferred in the Greek poem that the Spartans used logic in the sense that they died at Thermopylae. Thermopylae has a very narrow place where alternate routes are not available and this place was chosen by the Spartans as their place of combat. They chose this is because their numbers are small (around 300) and this is the only way they can defeat the incoming of wave of incoming soldiers. “Rectius Vives” on the other hand, also shows signs of logic as seen in the advice of the persona to someone younger than him. Several applications of logic can be seen like the use of the metaphor of the Golden Mean to convey moderation. The golden mean was used as a metaphor of moderation because the word “mean” means average or central point and moderation is all about staying in the middle, not too much of one thing or the other.
ReplyDeleteBut the big difference that can be mainly seen between these poems is how the message of logic was conveyed. The Greek poem used war to convey it while the Latin poem used the advice given by an elderly to a younger generation to emphasize logic.
One great insight that I have learned from this analysis is that even though these poems were written between different eras, still same meaning of poems are shown. It is really surprising that we can find similarities between two poems showing different images: one is war while the other is just a simple advising.
-John Vincent C. Lorenzo – Lit 14 P
The two poems, “the river merchant’s wife” from China and “seizure” from Greece uses themes that centers on the role and mentality of women at those times - that their entire purpose is to find and serve a man.
ReplyDeleteBoth poems show that men have power over women. For example, in the river merchant’s wife, the main character refers to her husband as “Lord” and his departure seems like a dire tragedy for the wife, who wants to reunite with her husband as soon as possible. The wife seems to be also humbled at her husband’s presence as seen in the lines: “Lowering my head, I looked at the wall. Called to, a thousand times, I never looked back.” The same goes for Sappho’s “Seizure,” where the main character refers to the man as a “God,” as if she worships that male. And just like the river merchant’s wife, she is humbled, and perhaps awed, at his presence as seen on the lines: “can say nothing as my tongue cracks” and “For now as I look at you my voice is empty.”
Even though the two poems refer two different types of love, one marital love and the other is forbidden love, they possess the same message as to how women react when they are in love.
Historically, women at those ancient times are not really allowed to do much, and are always looked down upon by men; these poems are simply proof that they used to think this way. But due to the development in our present society, these poems can now be a subject of feminist readings, since the women today are more open-minded than at those times, and at the same time, not entirely dependent on their man.
Camilo J. Cordero Jr.
LIT14-P